My Criticism of the Practitioners

Everybody who sells products and services of this type claims to have a unique system that he personally developed and used to greatly increase his success with women. I contend that generally they have only taken things that fit their life and personality and called it a system. What worked for one guy may have universal application, or it may work just for that one guy.

I’ll start with the original, R. Don Steele, recently notorious as the guru of George Sodini, notorious in the 90’s as nemesis of Ross Jeffries. He is not thought of as a practitioner of game, and is dismissed by many who are, but he is the earliest promoter of a detailed system. The godfather of all is Eric Weber; but his book pretty much amounts to “just talk to girls, say anything” and does not belong to the modern era of this phenomenon.

Steele’s original book is entitled “How To Date Young Women For Men Over 35.” Note the specificity of the title; the content is even more specific. The advice is for a divorced man in his 40’s who has no trouble dating women his own age, is fairly affluent, does not want to get married again, and does not want to have a girlfriend. This man does not even expect the young woman in question to be exclusive to him; it is understood she will have a boyfriend or date men her own age as well. This man, in other words, is just like Steele. At least, he is honest; he did everything he advises the reader to do. So if you’re like Steele- an affluent, handsome, middle-aged corporate executive with more than one marriage and numerous relationships under your belt- you can do what Steele did, which is date waitresses. There is not much earth-shattering there.

But what if you aren’t like Steele? What if you’re like George Sodini? You may have trouble getting concrete results.

The man Steele hates more than any other- Ross Jeffries- is another story. Jeffries seems to like to promote himself  as a hopeless nerd who would never have gotten anywhere with women if not for his incredible discovery of and application of Neuro-Linguistic Programming to attracting women. He certainly looks the part, a skinny and goofy looking guy. There is not, however, a bashful, shy, timid, or anxious bone in his body. He is an aggressive and tireless self-promoter who will talk to anyone without the least reticence. He is said to be a comedy writer, and I suspect he has performed stand-up, although if he had I doubt he would mention it as it wouldn’t fit with his desired image.

An aggressive, fearless person who will talk to anybody without the least hesitation is not going to have trouble talking to women. If he can display a bit of charm and sense of humor in the process some of them will like him. If this describes you, you may benefit from Ross Jeffries’ material but you are unlikely to think you need it.

Mystery is the most famous of the PUA gurus. Everybody knows he is a magician, which is to say a performer, which is to say somebody who has gotten the knack of getting and keeping peoples’ attention. Sound like a guy who will be able to pick up women? Sans any method or system, whether imparted by seminar, book, or DVD? Indeed. A couple of other things- in “The Game”, Neil Strauss describes him as “beating out” a magic trick from a classmate at age 12. Whether this is meant literally or not I’m not sure, but it shows social dominance. Strauss also mentions several times Mystery’s difficult relationship with his father. At the end of the book, Mystery’s mother said her husband had a very dominant, charismatic personality, which Mystery shared, and says that was the source of their conflict.

Again, we see a guy who does something well-suited to himself, and easy for him to do. Can you do it? Maybe, maybe not.

I imagine the #1 problem guys have with all this is approach anxiety. How do you overcome that? This has to be especially bad for omegas. I don’t see a lot of examples of people really overcoming approach anxiety. I haven’t seen many examples of guys who don’t have approach anxiety getting laid with women who would not likely have slept with them anyway.

So is this stuff any good at all? I don’t know. I don’t sell any books or DVDs or  conduct any seminars. I’m only interested in finding out what works for guys who really need help, myself included.

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13 Responses to My Criticism of the Practitioners

  1. Eric says:

    Some valid points but just because someone is talented doesn’t mean a less talented person can’t learn from them. Continual improvement (the two key words) can lead to drastic, seemingly magical change. Even minor change (going from 4s to 5/6s, from no sex to sex) make the quest worthwhile.

    PS – you should make a post on open vs closed body language. I was always comfortable crossing my arms because it matched my feeling of separateness; once I realized that all the PUA/body language people were in agreement that this was bad, I stopped. They were right.

  2. K. says:

    I don’t think there’s really a way to overcome approach anxiety. You just go out, talk to girls despite the anxiety, and eventually become more comfortable. You’ll still have approach anxiety, but now you’ve talked to girls. I wouldn’t look for a cure and just concentrate on gradual self-improvement. The guys who concentrate on curing their approach anxiety go out and act like jackasses and try to offend girls. That doesn’t get you anywhere.

    If a guy doesn’t have approach anxiety, there’s lots of things that he can do wrong. Just knowing to tease girls a little bit, to stop teasing them and get them to talk about themselves, to go in for a kiss can make the difference between getting with them physically versus being a friend or a creep.

    I’ve been enjoying your blog lately, but I’ve been having trouble understanding why you consider yourself an omega. You’re a smart guy and you give good advice. While you’ve written that your career is stalled, you don’t seem to have any other major disadvantages. So few guys make any effort at self-improvement so that trying puts you ahead of a lot of guys. If a guy
    1. is decent-looking
    2. has some socially okay friends
    3. is in decent physical shape
    4. has some hobbies
    5. dresses well and has good hygiene
    6. isn’t too discouraged
    he can be beta/high-beta. That’s achievable to a lot of guys who might consider themselves omega. Beta/high beta isn’t bad. It means some long dry spells but also having flings with some lovely women or being involved with a woman who is pretty desirable.

  3. James says:

    Being able to blog intelligently about game does not make an omega into a beta. After all, much of the Roissysphere is mostly regurgitations of the same material.

    Having the courage to actually act on “game” doesn’t mean much for hard-corps omegas doesn’t mean much either. For myself, much f the advice out there is fairly obvious and straightforward. Nevertheless, after 20 years of conversations with women that invariably end with rather non-subtle “hints” about absent boyfriends or suddenly remembered previous engagements, I can tell you that for some, nothing works.

    Hence my own interest in this blog. What s the fundamental “it” that a non-hideous, otherwise successful omega lacks? That, I think, is the real question being explored here.

    • Different things can be barriers to relating well to others, including women. Relating to women is just a subset of other social relations.

      Those who purport to teach “game” tend to be very touchy about negative feedback. If you say “I tried that and it didn’t work” they will tend to say “you didn’t try hard enough” or “you don’t really believe in it so it won’t work” or something like that. And so those who have real difficulty tend not to get help. Even among those who purport to want to help there is a lot of negativity towards the really unskilled, which to me does nothing for their credibility.

      On the other hand, as I have said, there are some guys who just won’t take any advice.

      I’m not set up as a discussion forum but if you want to relate your difficulties with a little detail maybe I or somebody else could shed some light.

  4. Wilbur Simonson says:

    I have several game courses, but none of them make more than a token effort to address approach anxiety. Here’s the best system I’ve seen:

    1. Write down a list of goals from easiest to hardest.
    2. Work on a goal at least once every day and chart your progress.
    3. If a goal is too hard, pick an easier goal.
    4. Once a goal becomes easy, move on to a slightly more difficult goal.
    5. Start each goal with non-threatening people and situations, such as friends/acquaintances, cashiers, waitresses, hostesses, old people, men, the grocery store, the bike trail, the park, the gas station. Then work your way towards attractive women and difficult situations.

    An example list of goals:

    1. Say hello to people, look them in the eye, and smile.
    a. Start with friends/acquaintances. If this is too hard, maybe some anti-anxiety medication would help.
    b. Say hello to co-workers.
    c. Say hello to the Wal-Mart greeter. You’re doing him a favor by helping him do his job.
    d. Say hello to retail store employees, such as stock clerks and cashiers.
    e. Walk around your neighborhood and say hello to people you pass on the sidewalk.

    4. Ask co-workers about their weekend plans.

    5. Pick a convenience store/coffee shop, etc. with an old/ugly female cashier who has a friendly personality. Go there every day, buy the cheapest item (e.g., a newspaper) and flirt with/banter with/tease her. Examples:
    a. If she says “Will that be all?” reply “You’re all I can handle, today.”
    b. If she makes a mistake, say “You must be nervous selling a newspaper to a movie star.” Ask her what brand of soda/coffee, etc. she recommends, and tell her you’ll blame her if it isn’t any good.
    c. Ask her for directions to the post office/airport, etc. If she doesn’t know, say “You are so fired as my travel agent.” If she knows, say “You’re awesome,” and high-five her. If she says, “you should have known that without asking,” tell her, “I was just testing to make sure you knew.”
    Most game courses teach how to do this.

    If she doesn’t enjoy this, you aren’t doing it right. That’s OK; it doesn’t bother you because you aren’t emotionally invested in the outcome. Her reaction is merely feedback from which you learn.

    6. Repeat #5 with an attractive female cashier who is friendly. There’s no reason to be outcome dependent because you aren’t trying to get anything from her. You’re just a friendly guy who is doing her a favor by making her boring job less tedious.

    7. Ask somebody on the street or in a store for the time or directions. Say thank you and walk away.

    8. Find something about others that you sincerely appreciate and tell them. For example, “those are great sunglasses” or “your dog is friendly.” Don’t say anything else; just walk away. Practice this with everybody, again starting with non-threatening people.

    9. Combine 7 and 8, e.g., ask somebody on the street for the time, say “those are great sunglasses,” and then move on.
    10. Combine 7 with a flirtatious/banter/teasing line, then immediately walk away.
    11. Combine 9 and 10.

    • Onasendai says:

      This reply is almost a word for word account of how I learned to gradually move towards talking to women with no hesitation. And whats so great about it is that over time people will remember you because, one you seem like a sincere person, and two you stand out as a witty person. Awesome reply! You guys should just practice this for a month. You’ll be shocked at the results.

  5. Ted Finudy says:

    How do I become a bottom-feeder, getting large quantities of low qualitity girls?

    I was reading this book about socially skilled. And there was this case of Bottom-feeding Bud. He had been unpopular in high school getting no dates, and had no job or home. But he found it very easy to get older, fat, ugly women as dates in bars. He would wake up disgusted.

    Now I’m not a pervert, and I don’t want to be bottom feeding bud.

    But I would like to have a large quanitity of sexual partners. Quantity is its own quality. So really I have no limits of ugliness.

    Kind of how Hal’s luck improved in shallow hal, when he got permanent beer goggles.

    Does anyone have any tips on how to pursue this strategy?

    I would like to maximize the number of girls I sleep with. Thats what a lot of guys here have asked. But what makes me different is that I’m ONLY interested in the number of girls I sleep with, and don’t care at all about attractiveness. My goal is to have a truly astronomical number of partners. And I don’t care about looks, age, old, fat, ugly, don’t matter. Which is not to say I don’t have preferences. I’m pretty conventional young, skinny, white, the classic beauty, in my inclinations, but I wont let that interfere with numbers. In fact I would sacrifice the chance to mate with an attractive female, if the time and resource investment prevented me from pursuing a larger number of ugly females. Quantity is a quality all its own.

    Most pick-up artist seduction lit is targeted those getting attractive females. I think the rules and tactics are a little different for uglies, and I would appreciate detailed advice on tactics. Also I feel that traditional dating rules should not apply since I’m doing the female a favor. So I do not accept spending any money on these relationships, and expect the females to accept an open relationship, in which we are both free to pursue other partners.

    To pre-empt any moralistic criticisms, I would say my goals are more moral than what 95% of young men want. They want a female who outranks them to lower herself, and do him a favor after he somehow tricks or coerces her. I on the other hand will for the most part be pursuing girls of lower value than me, and be doing THEM a favor.

  6. Susan Walsh says:

    I know one young man who felt paralyzed by shyness when he got to college. To his credit, he went to the counseling center and asked if they deal with that issue. They referred him to a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist, who he has been seeing now for three years. He has made enormous strides. I don’t know a great deal of detail about his therapy, but I do know that it involved attending social events where his assignment was to observe others and take note of their social behaviors and interactions. Over time, he began to model these approaches. Once he hit a minimum level of skill, he did not stand out in the same way, and other guys just sort of accepted him and took his reticence for granted. I do know that he took an SSRI anti-anxiety medication, Zoloft I believe, and he reported that it definitely “took the edge off.” The SSRI’s can be used with impunity, and can be of enormous help in lessening anxiety.

  7. Thursday says:

    Sinn goes into this in his Game Acceleration Doctrine, one of the few game products that actually has something new to say.

    There is also a good site on basic social skills here:
    http://www.succeedsocially.com/

  8. […] probably isn’t important, since there have been various vicious rivalries from the beginning. I have made my own critique of various “gurus”. Like anything else, take what is helpful and useful, and leave the […]

  9. slenkar says:

    have you seen rsd julien on youtube? I havent tried his techniques but they sound like they may work,.

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